I43: Joseph VENABLE (ABOUT 1730/35

Joseph VENABLE

ABOUT 1730/35 - ABOUT 1810

A Revolutionary War Veteran
BIRTH: ABOUT 1730/35.
DEATH: ABOUT 1810, Spartanburg, SC

Family 1 : Mary Ann (VENABLE) ?

William VENABLE

MARRIAGE: ABOUT 1745, Louisa Co., VA

 
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Notes:

A number of English Venable family members emigrated to the New World in the 17the century, and the family has had a long and complicated history in America as a result of these parallel branches existing in the same places. Spellings of the surname include: Vennables, Vennable, Venebal, Venebel, Venaball, Venible, Veniable, Venobles, Veneble, and Venebles.

From Some Venables of England and America and brief accounts of families into which certain Venables married, by Henrietta Brady Brown, (Kinderton Press, Cincinnati, OH: 1961):

Venable heads of families in South Carolina [1790] were Andw. Venable, Arch'd. Venable, James Venable, John Venable, Richard Venable, Wm. Venable, all of York [England].

According to the Cockrill Family History as told by Winifred Reidmiller:

Rebecca Cockrill was a daughter of Col. Joseph Venable, of the Revolution War. Anderson & wife were born in Carolina. Venable owned a plantation there & was Welsh & English descent, Venable was a Welsh prince and was [of] a Royal family in England... Ma's Great Grand father was from the royal family of England. Either Mrs. Theodore Cockrill or Mrs. Bob Cockrill may know of papers telling more about the royal family. The Mrs Cockrills were in S. F. the last we knew.

Ellen Venable Poteet, a Venable family descendant and researcher, responded to this old story with this information (email from 29 Oct 2001):

I rather doubt we are descended from royalty. Every family tries to lay claim to that. What most people don't know is that quite a few claims to royalty turn out to be on the wrong side of the covers, so to speak.

I haven't found any record of COLONEL Joseph Venable in the Revolutionary War in South Carolina. He was probably a private in the militia just as was his son-in-law Joseph Barrett who married Elizabeth. Joseph was NOT born in South Carolina. The earliest record I have found for him was in 1747 in Spotsylvania County, VA, where he and Lucy were living before coming to Spartanburg, SC. There is also a record for a Mary Ann Venable a few years before that in Louisa County, VA, who I believe may have been Joseph's first wife and mother of William Venable.

From Ellen Venable Poteet's Joseph Venable research:

Joseph Venable was born probably between 1730 and 1735. He may have been born in Virginia, possibly in Maryland, or even in Pennsylvania. There are cases to be made for each place, but at this time the location cannot be penned downed. His birth date is reckoned according to the following facts:

One of his daughters, Elizabeth (Betsy), most likely the eldest, was born in 1762, as evidenced by her application for a pension on the Revolutionary War record of her first husband, Joseph Barrett, and by the death record in Kentucky Vital Statistics when she died in 1857 stating that she was the daughter of Joseph and Lucy Venable.

William Venable, who stated he was born in 1757 in Prince Edward County, VA, in his application for a Revolutionary War pension, was probably Joseph's son by a first marriage. William Venable was listed separately in the 1790 Spartanburg County, SC, census as a single male over 16. William Venable and Joseph Venable witnessed a deed between Robert Crowder of Laurens Co., SC to Thomas Kimbol of Spartanburg on Feb. 11, 1788 (Spartan County, SC Deed Book B, pages 228-230). Joseph Venable was also the jury foreman deciding on Sept. 23, 1790 (Spartanburg County Court Minutes, 1789-1794, page 80) in favor of William Venable who brought suit against John Connor, Jr. It is obvious that the two knew each other. With these two birth dates of the daughter and possibly the son, Joseph Venable would have been born at least by 1737 and probably earlier.

Joseph Venable was first mentioned in Spotsylvania Co., VA records in 1747. However, he brought suit [this would put him between the ages of 8 to 13, indicating another Joseph Venable] against Richard Davenport in Louisa County, VA in 1743/4.
From the Louisa Co., VA Order Book 1742-1748 on 9 Jan 1743/4 the following is recorded:

"In an action of trespass assault and battery between Joseph Venable plt. and Richard Davenport def. dismissed being agreed. In an action upon the case between Joseph Venable plt. and Richard Davenport def. dismissed being agreed. 13 Feb 1743/4 trespass, assault and battery Joseph Venable agst. Richard Davenport agreed."

"9 July 1744 on the motion of Ann Powell a witness for Daniel McClaron (McHeron?) from Hanover agnst. Richard Davenport one day 25 miles. Same for Joseph Venable from Spots. Co. one day 25 miles. Motion of Catherine Venable witness for Daniel McClaron from Spots. agst. Richard Davenport for one day 25 miles. Motion of William Davenport one day, Richard Blalock one day and Charles Kennedy one day all witnesses for Richard Davenport."

In 1746, a Mary Ann Venable brought suit against Charles Cannaday in Spotsylvania Co., VA. "Mary Ann Venable against Charles Cannaday about a breach of the peace, the same being agreed, it is dismissed" (Spotsylvania Co., VA Order Book, Court of Oct. 7, 1746, page 394). Charles Kennedy was reputed to have married a Davenport about 1731 in adjoining Louisa County, VA.
The relationship of these two Venable women, Catherine and Mary Ann, to Joseph is positively known, but speculation is that Mary Ann was Joseph's first wife rests on two facts: William named a daughter Mary Ann and William was older than Joseph's other children by six years. Since all Joseph's other children were spaced about two years apart, it indicates a second marriage.
The case for Catherine Venable as the mother of Joseph rests on two suppositions: Joseph Venable was paid 1200 pounds of tobacco in 1776 by St. George's vestry for maintaining her. She obviously wasn't his child. She could have been a ward although a ward probably wouldn't have appeared with him in a court suit, or she could have been a sister or a mother. Since Joseph had moved to Spartanburg Co., SC by 1778, he possibly stayed in Spotsylvania County until she died and then moved after her death. If her date of death of gravestone could be found, it should answer the question of whether sister or mother.
Joseph and Lucy Venable appear in Spotsylvania County, VA deeds in 1763 and in 1772. The latter deed (Spotsylvania County, VA Deed Book H, p. 205) was transcribed by Crozier in his Abstracts as between Joseph Venable and his wife Sussie and Clayton Coleman. I examined this deed in particular on microfilm in the Virginia State Archives and found that although the clerk had written her name at least five times, his capital "L" was difficult to distinguish from his capital "S". However, the name definitely ended in a "y" in every case and they were all written by the same hand. "Sussie" was certainly "Lucey"; therefore, Joseph Venable's wife in both deeds was "Lucey" and not "Sussie".
If Mary Ann Venable were Joseph Venable's wife, she could have been the mother of the following:

William Venable, born 1755 in Prince Edward Co., VA, according to his Rev. War pension application. He reputedly named a daughter Mary Ann, which lends credence to the supposition that the Mary Ann Venable above was his mother. One descendant stated that he married Sarah (last name unknown) in 1792, which agrees with the 1790 census listing him as single.

Sarah Venable was involved in an altercation in Spartanburg County when she "attacked with force and arms Jane Kelly" in 1801 before they moved to Kentucky. Sarah was judged guilty, fined $14 and court costs (John Kelly et ux vs. William Venable et ux). And her father-in-law Joseph Venable was a constable in Spartanburg County!

William Venable was granted 457 acres on Nov. 7, 1785, the plat being certified March 4, 1785 in 96 District below the ancient boundary line on both sides of Peter's Creek of Lawson's Fork Creek of the Pacolet River. It adjoined Symmes' land, who was probably the Daniel Symmes who bought the entire trace from William for 100 pounds 5 shillings SC money on June 15, 1786 (Spartanburg Co., SC Deed Book A, p. 214-5).

William was no stranger to the law courts either. He was involved in several law suits as both plaintiff and defendant. On March 19, 1789 he sued Isham Safford; on March 16, 1790 he sued John Connor, Jr.; on March 17, 1790 Benjamin Spencer sued William who had to pay 10 pounds sterling and costs; on Jan. 13, 1798 William sued Robert McDowell and on July 18, 1799 William was awarded $36 plus costs. It would be interesting to know what these cases involved

A list of Spotsylvania County, VA records as compiled by Ellen Venable Poteet for Joseph Venable is also available.

Two Joseph Venables are listed in the 1800 Census for the "Spartanburg District" of South Carolina, one is the head of a household with 2 males between 16 and 26, 1 male between 26 and 45, 1 male over 45, 1 female between 16 and 26, and 1 female over 45; the other is the head of a household containing 1 male under 10, 1 male between 16 and 26, 1 female under 10, and 1 female between 16 and 26.

A James, John, Richard, and William Venable, Anderson, Lewis, and William Cockrel, and a William Beaver also show up in the same census for Spartanburg.

No Venables show up in the 1810 Census for Spartanberg Co., SC, however there are two Joseph Venables listed in the 1810 Census for Kentucky, one in Warren Co. (in a house hold with 4 males under 10, 1 male between 10-16, 2 males between 26 and 45, and 1 female between 16 and 26), the other in Barren Co. (in a house hold with 2 males between 26 and 45 and 1 female over 45).

Carolyn Thorsen, an earlier generation Cockrill family researcher, wrote an essay "One or Two Joseph Venables?" in 1989 to explain this census information. The essay is also a good compilation of all the information known about Joseph Venable at that time. She also wrote another essay "The Watch" from an old family story attributed to Rebecca (Venable) Cockrill.

Joseph Venables is listed in Roster of South Carolina patriots in the American Revolution by B. G. Moss (Baltimore, MD: 1985), p. 952:

Venable, Joseph
He served in the milita under Col. Roebuck after the fall of Charleston.
AA 8044; X3754[AA= South Carolina Audited Accounts; X=Stub Indent numbers]

No records exist for a Joseph Venable in the National Archives Revolutionary War Pension and Bounty Land Applications listings.

From Ellen Venable Poteet:

Joseph Venable's Spartanburg County, SC years
Joseph and Lucy moved to Spartanburg CO., SC, between 1776 and 1778.
The Minutes of the Court of Common Pleas for Spartanburg Co., SC, 1785-1789 (typescript in the S. C. Archives) show Joseph Venable as serving on the petit juries for the March session 1786, sessions June and September 1787, and as a witness in a suit between Israel Morris and John Kimbell on Dec. 20, 1786 and March 17, 1789 (that was a long trial!) as well as in a suit between Major Parsons and Robert McDowell on March 19, 1788. At the June Court 1788, Joseph Venable and William Wood were appointed constables.
Later Spartanburg Court Minutes show Joseph Venable, Thomas Bennett, and John Young viewing two roads from William McDowell's mill to the Court House and deciding in favor of the road running by the Widow Woods' old place (Sept-Dec 1789) and Joseph as a jury foreman in a number of trials in 1790. He was also involved in several law suits brought both by him and against him in 1793, in one of which Elizabeth Bennett (nee Venable) was in attendance for nine days as a witness (Joseph Venable vs. Alexander Copeland, a neighbor, Jan. 1793). These lawsuits probably stemmed from his office as constable.

Joseph, his wife, and their married daughter, Rebecca Cockrill, appear to have been members of the Boiling Spring Baptist Church, of Spartan District, Spartanburg County, South Carolina in 1794.

From Ellen Venable Poteet:
	Joseph Venable's Warren County, KY Years Joseph and Lucy Venable moved to Warren Co., KY about 1801 along with many other Spartanburg families (deposition of Joseph Venable, Jr. in Elizabeth Venable Barrett Bennett's application for a Rev. War pension on Joseph Barrett's record). The area in Warren Co. was called the Carolina Section. Some of the Venables stayed in Warren County, but most of them were in Allen Co., when it was formed. Joseph Venable, Sr.'s will in Warren Co., KY, was dated May 24, 1810 (Warren County Will Book 4, p. 218). In his will he mentioned Larkin and John Venable. So we know that he had sons Larkin, James, and John; son Joseph Venable, Junior (deposition given for his sister Elizabeth's Rev. War pension application); daughter Elizabeth (Allen County, KY Vital Statistics); Rebecca (from DAR application of Aletha D. Hoag of Santa Rosa, CA accepted April 1, 1926); Lucy because of date of her marriage and no other Venables in the area; and William who was a son of Joseph's possible first marriage. Aletha Hoag's DAR application also listed Joseph Venable's wife as Lucy Davenport, but to date there is only circumstantial evidence that she was a Davenport before marriage. However, since Davenport has been carried down in every generation of their son John's family as well as in other branches, I have accepted it until proven otherwise. The DAR application listed incorrect birth and death dates for Joseph and Lucy, which should be revised when more information comes to light.

Joseph Venable appears to have homesteaded land along Bays Fork in Warren County, Kentucky. It is not certain if it his him or his son, Joseph Jr., who is listed in the earliest tax records for the county along with Joseph Sr.'s other sons. It appears that his wife Lucy is listed in the 1812 tax record, and perhaps the Joseph listed in this record and after is Joseph Jr.

Extracted from the Warren County KY Tax List, 1809-1828, microfilm box 373:

WARREN COUNTY, KENTUCKY TAX RECORDS
YEAR	NAME	LAND	WATERCOURSE	Entered	WM/B16/TB/H	TVALUE

1809	Venable William	----	----		1 - - 2
1809	Venable Larkin	100	Bay's Fork	L. eller?	1 - - 3
1809	Venable John	----			1 - - 1
1809	Venable James	100		J. Conth?	1 - - 1
1809	Venable Joseph	----			1 - - -

1810	(missing)

1811	Venable Larkin	100	Bay's Fork	Joseph Venable	1 - - 3
1811	Venable James	100		Joseph Venable	1 - - 2
1811	Venable William	100		Joseph Venable	1 - - 3
1811	Venable John	----			1 - - 2
1811	Venable Joseph	----			1 - - 2

1812	Venable William		Bay's Fork		1 - - 4
1812	Venable Larkin	100	Bay's Fork		1 3 6 3
1812	Venable Lucy				- - - 1
1812	Venable James	100			- - - 1
1812	Venable John		Tramiel?	Wm. Indan	1 - - 4
1812	Venable Joseph	----			1 - - 1

1813	Venable William				1 - - 3
1813	Venable James	100	Bay's Fork	Jos Venable	1 - - 3
1813	Venable John	100	Tramiel	Aaron Neal	1 - - 3
1813	Venable Larkin	100	Bay's Fork	Jos Venable	13 6 3
1813	Venable Joseph				1 - - 2

1814	(missing)

WM= White Male over 21; B16 = Blacks over 16; TB == total Blacks; H = Horses

No Venables are listed on the Warren County tax rolls for 1815 or 1816.

Instead it appears, that the Venable family land holdings were transferred to Allen County when it was created from Warren, even though some of the tax listings for Joseph's children indicated they were not living on their property in the new county. Also, it is not known at this time who exactly John Venable Jr. is since John Venable Sr. does not appear to have a son named John:

ALLEN COUNTY, KENTUCKY TAX RECORDS
YEAR	NAME	LAND	WATERCOURSE	Entered	WM/B16/TB/H	TVALUE

1815	Venable Joseph	----			1 - - 2	70
1815	Venable John Jr	160	Tramiel	Thlanning?	1 - - 1	300
1815	Venable James	100	B Fork	J Venable	1 - - 3	250
1815	Venable John	100	Tramiel	A Neal	1 - - 2	370

1816	Venable Joseph				1 - - -
1816	Venable Larkin	100	Bays Fork	Joseph Venable	- - - -	400
1816	Venable John Sn	100	Tramiel	Aaron Neal	1 - - 1	340
1816	Venable James	100	Bays Fork	Joseph Venable	1 - - 3	300
1816	Venable John Jr.	100	Tramiel	Jn Winwright	- - - -	240

WM= White Male over 21; B16 = Blacks over 16; TB == total Blacks; H = Horses

There is a listing for Joseph Venable's will registered in Warren Co., KY in 1810 (Book A Page 218) in the Index To Kentucky Wills to 1851: the testators, edited by Ronald Vern Jackson, Gary Ronald Teeples, and David Schaefer Meyerthere (Utah: 1977). The following is a transcribed copy of this which Carolyn Thorsen had sent Jeanne Miller in the 1980's, and corrected here from additional information by Ellen Venable Poteet (includes original spelling):
	Venable Will October Court proven by Subs Witneps Recorded in Book A page 268 (or 218)
	Warren County October County Court 1810
	This Last Will and Testament of Joseph Venable deceased as Exhibited in Court and was proven by the Oath of James Bennet and Sarah Mitchell Two Subscribing Witnepes thereto to be the last will and Testament of Joseph Venable deceased and was ordered to be recorded.
	Attente Jon Hobson, Clk
	In the presents of God and man I, Joseph Venable Senir of Warren County State of Kentuckey being very sick in body but in perfect sence and memrey Thanks be to the Almighty god for it I do under take and order These to be my last will and Testament in the manner and Form as Folling first I bequeath my wife - Lucy Venable to have all my Rail and pursenel estate and after all my Just Debts are paid and at her Death for Larking Venable to have that part of the land where he now livs and that James Venable to hav that part of land where he now livs on Then Rest of my property to be Eaqully Divided Betwixt all my Children., NB Larkin Venable is to hav one feather bead and furniture John Venable is to have one feather bead also Then I want my friend Lucy Venable and Willis Mitchell senser to be Exors of this my last Will and Testament where as I have set my hand and seal this 24th May 1810.
	Joseph Venable (seal)
	Teste James Bennet Sarah Mitchell John Bennet. 1st October 1810 proven in Open Court by (rest of page not copied)
	Warren County Sct. November the first A List of the Sales of Joseph Venable deceased. D C M William Collins One Cow and Calif 10 50 James Venable One Bull 10 25 William Collins 1 Little Steer 3 00 John B. Gibson One white Bull 3 50 Joseph Venable One Cow and Calf 9 25 Mary Blasingain 1 horse 41 Joab Smith One matax 2 37 5 James Venable One hoe 1 00 Thomas Spain One hoe 75 Larkin Venable One Shovel plow 1 37 5 Solomon Williams Chains 3 00 Larkin Venable one Saddle 4 25 John Todd 2 Sheep 4 12 5 Solomon Williams One Sheep 1 50 Larkin Venable One pair ?treekers 2 12 5 (220) We Willis Mitchell Senior and Lucy Venable -- Administrator and Administratrix to Estate of Joseph Venable Deceased do return the within as a true account of the sales had of the Estate given under Our hands this last day of November 1810 Willis Mitchell Senior Lucy Venable Adminst. Warren County Sct. January County Court 1811 This list of Sales of the Estate of Joseph Venable deceased was returned Examined and Ordered to be recorded.
	Attende Jona Hobson CWCC

This page created on 02/05/01 16:08. Updated 04/20/09 16:53.